There’s been a lot of kerfuffle, hand-wringing, and general angst about whether Christians should bake cakes (or provide any services) for things that they find morally objectionable.
Not even including the legal side of things (which is huge), this issue is massively important for us as Christians. It touches on what it means to love sinners and how Christian businesses should operate in a sinful world.
As I’ve interacted with people over the issue, I’ve heard two primary arguments as to why Christians should bake cakes for gay weddings (and presumably other events they find objectionable).
Before I dive into these arguments, I need to acknowledge that there are issues of conscience and wisdom here. You may not see things as I do, and that’s okay. But regardless, all of us should wrestle deeply with these things. These situations are only going to become more common in the future, and we need to know how to respond in a biblical and godly manner.
With that said, here are the arguments I’ve heard and why, in spite of these, I still wouldn’t bake a cake for a gay wedding (assuming I could bake).
But Didn’t Jesus Love Sinners?
Again and again in scripture, we see Jesus loving sinners. He ate with them, entered their lives, and told them about the glories of the kingdom of God. He wasn’t afraid of sin.
As Christians, we’re called to emulate his example. To spend time with those who don’t believe the gospel. To be present in their lives. To be friends of sinners.
But this argument fails to make one, really important distinction: Jesus loved sinners but didn’t honor their sinful lifestyles.
In other words, Jesus didn’t participate in activities that were a celebration of their sinful choices.
For example, Jesus ate dinner with Zacchaeus the tax collector. He didn’t attend a party in which Zacchaeus dedicated a new house that had been purchased with money stolen from people. Jesus welcomed prostitutes, but he didn’t celebrate the relationship of the woman at the well and the man who wasn’t her husband.
Jesus delighted to be with sinners and was deadly serious about sin. He appealed for people to repent so that they wouldn’t go to hell.
Certain events do celebrate and honor things that God calls wicked. I realize that sounds extreme, but we need to come to terms with that reality. A gay wedding is, essentially, a celebration and party for the union of a same-sex couple.
By providing services for a gay wedding, whether it’s baking a cake or being a DJ, I am contributing to that celebration, and I believe that’s wrong.
My father-in-law is an electrician. If the owner of a strip club asked him to do the wiring for the club, he would be contributing to the opening of that business. If an unbelieving friend owned a strip club and asked me to come to the opening celebration, I couldn’t do that, even if nothing sexual was happening at that particular event. An opening celebration is rejoicing in all that’s going to happen in that club.
Problems arise when we assume that loving sinners and refusing to celebrate sin are mutually exclusive. They’re not. I can have a gay couple over for dinner without also attending their wedding. Will this possibly add some strain to the relationship? Sure. But that’s the challenge of living in a sinful world, and the gospel is more than able to overcome relational strain.
I do wonder if part of this argument may be based on the fact that we don’t take homosexuality with the same seriousness that we take other sins. Not celebrating the opening of a strip club seems like a no-brainer, while a gay wedding seems to be a more innocuous event.
So Should We Never Do Business With Sinners?
The second argument assumes that if I don’t bake a cake for a gay wedding then I can’t do business with sinners at all. For example, if I run a hardware store, I can’t sell hammers because someone might use a hammer to hurt a person. Or if I sell guns, I can only sell to Christians because a non-Christian might use the gun to kill a person. Or if I make craft beer, I can’t give it to non-Christians because they might get drunk. You get the point.
This argument misses one key element: knowledge.
There’s a HUGE difference between selling a product with no knowledge of how it will be used and selling something that you know will be used for wrongdoing.
I run a freelance writing business and often work with companies to improve their marketing. Is it possible that a company could use something I write to rip someone off? Sure. Maybe they intentionally sell a defective product that I don’t know about. But unless I’m writing blatantly deceitful material, I have no way of knowing that.
On the other hand, if a Mormon church came to me and asked me to help improve their branding, I would refuse. Do I want to be friends with Mormons? Yes! Do I want to hang out with them and have them over for dinner? Of course! Do I feel okay about helping them promote a false gospel? Never!
Not all business transactions are neutral. Knowledge of the transaction really does matter. I will always do business with unbelievers…unless I know that something explicitly sinful is involved in that business deal.
We Can Still Be Friends
If you disagree with me, that’s okay. I know that in many cases, things aren’t black and white. I do believe Scripture is relatively clear on these issues, but I also understand that we all must wrestle with what it means to follow Christ in a dying world.
And if you’re gay, I would LOVE to be friends with you. Come on over for dinner. Meet the fam. Bring your partner. This probably confuses you, but that’s okay. We can talk about it over the dinner that my wife will be cooking.
Well this week’s episode of was about as riveting as watching paint dry. Thanks for that, CW. I’m only a loyal viewer who tunes in week after week in the hopes that Jughead and Betty will do it I get to see more drama than when Kayla in marketing realizes someone ate her yogurt in the fridge EVEN THOUGH IT HAS HER NAME WRITTEN RIGHT THERE, PEOPLE. But by all means, produce a garbage episode in which the most exciting thing that happens is I get to see a flash of Archie’s nipple. K. Shall we dive into the episode then?
I love how Veronica just gets to sit in on mayoral meetings and shady business dealings now and none of the other parents present even seem the least bit concerned by this. They’re all gathered around talking about town politics and Veronica is just like “may I chime in?” And it’s like, yes, if they wanted advice on how to dissect a fuckboy’s texts then maybe they’d ask for you to “chime in” here, but in the meantime go back to homeroom, Veronica.
Cut to the Coopers who are just trying to have nice pancake breakfast while Chic tells them all about the prostitution ring he’s a part of. Their reaction is similar to when my parents heard/saw photographic evidence of what my sorority mixers were actually like in college, but that’s neither here nor there.
Also, let’s talk about the name Chic for a second please. Honey. Baby. Sweetie. You don’t have to keep the name the Johns give you in real life. Just go by Charlie.
So, what do we think Jughead researching his “oral history” with Toni really means? Cause I highly doubt it involves grandpas or history like they keep trying to emphasize.
Archie decides to join the wrestling team to impress Hiram Lodge because he finds Hiram v intimidating. Isn’t it odd that Hiram and Lodge Industries are supposed to be this big bad business, but it’s actually just one little former soap opera star sitting behind a big desk rubbing his hands together and giggling?
I mean, the whole wrestling plan does seem a bit far-fetched since Hiram isn’t a six year old, but I am totally on board for Archie speaking minimally and only wearing a tight spandex onesie for an entire episode. I’m glad The CW finally understands how to play to his character strengths.
Meanwhile, Kevin casually remembers that Chic is a video gigolo, which I guess means he discovered the internet and realized he didn’t have to troll for dudes in the forest anymore? Progress. Also, why is Betty acting like Chic’s career as a man of the evening is so fucking surprising? Like, didn’t he tell her when she found him with a video camera in a seedy motel room that his line of work was “wish fulfillment?” What did you think he meant by that, Betty? Because I was thinking he meant those wishes involved other dudes’ dicks.
Okay why are only half the guys at this tryout wearing a singlet? And why is it only the hot ones with speaking parts? What kind of subliminal messaging are you trying to force upon me, CW??
KEVIN: Archie has the physique of a 1970s porn star, but he can’t wrestle for shit.
God bless you, Kevin, and your one liners.
Ugh why are the only scenes that include Jughead and Betty anymore about them talking about genocide? I mean, is it horrible that the Blossoms massacred the Serpents in Training Ukenta back in the day? Yes. But is it equally horrible that I haven’t seen Jughead dry hump on a kitchen counter since last season? Also yes! Why doesn’t the CW want me to have nice things?
HAHA listening to Hiram emasculate Archie in front of Veronica is everything. Also, is it just me, or was there a strong subtext of impotence happening throughout that entire scene?
HIRAM: The thought of you two in her bedroom alone used to make me nervous but now that I’ve seen how you *perform* under pressure I’m not nervous anymore.
The longer Toni hangs out in this town the more I’m into her. Jughead is like, trying to publish an entry in his burn book write an exposé on the injustices behind the Pickens Day celebrations. He shows it to Toni and she’s like “isn’t this a little bit… dramatic?” And it’s like, YES GIRL, it’s pettier than my college group chat.
Why is Betty talking to her brother about the “darkness in her?” Is she referring to the Dark Betty wig thing? Or the public pole dancing thing? And why is this whole conversation giving me weird sib-cest vibes?
BETTY: There’s a darkness inside me, Chic. Do you want me to show you?
We’re three seconds into Hiram privately coaching Archie and I already have a feeling this will turn into a deleted scene of v soon. Also, I have no idea why Archie’s trying so hard to impress Veronica’s dad. It’s clear she could give a shit what Hiram thinks, and also Archie has banged his daughter on every surface of that apartment so it’s not like Hiram actually has a leg to stand on here.
Okay this Chuck vs. Archie wrestling scene is actually super hot more homoerotic than Archie’s Red Hood videos.
Also, Hal’s totally not Chic’s dad. If that “you know why he can’t stay here” comment means anything it’s that Alice was a hoe stepped out on him.
Wait, did Mrs. Blossom just proposition Hal? 3.5 seconds after he gave that high and mighty speech about not standing for prostitutes living under his roof? And is he accepting?? The hypocrisy of white middle aged men knows no bounds.
The Serpents crash the parade with a protest but Hiram shuts that shit down immediately. Tbh he really missed his calling in life because he would have done great things as a chapter president of a sorority. Great. Things.
Did Betty just ask her brother to help her become a cam girl?? DID SHE? Betty, I know you’ve had a strange childhood but that shit isn’t acceptable. There are things you can do with your siblings but one of those things is not starting an internet porn career. Alice, get your house in order!
Hiram offers Archie a position at his company because what’s one more 16-year-old on the company payroll, amiright?
The episode ends with the beheading… of a statue. That’s the big dramatic moment The CW decided was worth ending an episode on: a headless statue. *takes deep, calming breaths* All I have to say is, next week I better see some actual fucking entertainment happening or I will bitch to no one but my TV screen NOT be pleased. CW, you’ve been warned…
Gender has been a hotly debated topic for some time now. For some people this is great, in-depth discussions about the injustices and societal imbalances caused by outdated gender norms are long overdue. For others it is unnecessary, virtue-signaling nonsense that gets in the way of more pressing issues. If you have any doubts about gender, just look inside your pants and carry on with your life.
Of course this is overly simplistic. But no matter where you stand on the myriad opinions and debates swirling around on the subject of gender, you can have a laugh at this list compiled by Bored Panda. Because companies and their marketing departments have been manipulating us for years, playing on our insecurities and ill-conceived notions of gender stereotypes to make a quick buck, we compiled a list of the most transparent, ridiculous examples for your viewing pleasure.
From man-pickles, to examples of identical products, except for one being pink and more expensive just… because, this list will leave you wondering why all this is necessary in this day and age. Scroll down to check it out for yourself, and let us know what you think in the comments!
(CNN)A key official at the agency responsible for overseeing the nation’s railroad safety has resigned after “troubling” allegations that he was still working as a public relations consultant in Mississippi.
“DOT was unaware of the information that is being reported regarding outside work Heath Hall took on during his time at FRA, but those allegations, if true, are troubling,” the DOT spokeswoman told CNN.
While serving at the Federal Railroad Administration, Hall was also quoted in at least one Mississippi news article as a spokesman for the Madison County sheriff, which was a client of the public relations and consulting agency he owned in Mississippi.
Hall’s firm, Strategic Marketing Group, continued to receive payments from July to December of last year, according to local records, despite his statement on an ethics form that his business would “remain dormant during Federal service.”
Hall did not immediately respond to CNN’s request for comment Saturday.
Hall was not the acting administrator when he resigned, as he had been on a leave of absence since January.
Hall stepped into the role of acting administrator while President Donald Trump’s nominee, Ron Batory, awaited Senate confirmation. Batory’s nomination has been stalled since July, when he was tapped by Trump to lead the agency.
The man in charge for now is acting deputy administrator Juan Reyes, who is also the agency’s chief counsel. The FRA has been without a permanent director since Trump took office.
As any parent will tell you, if you’re shopping with your kids, chances are you’ll be spending an overabundance of time going up and down the toy aisles.
So with all your experience examining toys and trying to tell your children no without causing a mid-store meltdown, you’ve probably caught on to some pretty hilarious toy designs and unbelievable packaging. It’s amazing how much focus goes into the marketing of some of the world’s biggest toys, that they seem to overlook the most obvious design flaws. But perhaps if they did notice their inappropriate mistakes, we wouldn’t be able to make hilarious lists such as this one.
Here are 27 hilarious toy designs that will leave you shaking your head in disbelief.
(CNN)A new report alleges that five of the United States’ largest opioid manufacturers paid patient advocacy groups nearly $9 million between 2012 and 2017 to help push an agenda that promoted opioid use.
The report is the second to be published as part of a wide-ranging investigation by the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee into the marketing and sales practices of opioid manufacturers. Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Missouri, has been spearheading the effort, which started in March. A report released in September found that manufacturers falsified medical records, misled insurance companies and provided kickbacks to doctors.
McCaskill’s office investigated the marketing and sales practices of the pharmaceutical companies Purdue Pharma LP, Janssen, Mylan, Depomed and Insys based on their roles in manufacturing some of the opioid painkillers with the highest sales in 2015.
According to the new report, 14 patient advocacy groups, including the Academy of Integrative Pain Management and the US Pain Foundation, received $8,856,339 in payments from the pharmaceutical companies over five years. The US Pain Foundation received the largest share of payments, totaling nearly $3 million.
The report found that the Academy of Integrative Pain Management and the American Academy of Pain Medicine each collected about $1.2 million in that same period.
The most generous payer was Purdue Pharma LP, which provided nearly half the manufacturers’ almost $9 million in payments. In the five years tracked, the report found, its payments to outside advocacy groups totaled just over $4.1 million.
On Sunday, Purdue, which has been criticized for its aggressive marketing of the painkiller OxyContin, said it will no longer send sales representatives to doctors’ offices to promote the drug.
In response to Monday’s report, Purdue noted in a statement its “significant sales force reduction of more than 50%” and said those remaining on the job will be promoting “non-opioid products.”
Purdue acknowledged the donations, but Executive Director for Communications Robert Josephson said in a statement, “We have supported third-party organizations, including with annual dues and unrestricted grants, that are interested in helping patients receive appropriate care.
Christine Dusek, head of global communications at Mylan, said in a statement, “Over the past few years, Mylan made very limited payments to the American Pain Society solely as part of its participation in the organization’s annual conferences. We did not sponsor or fund any speakers or presentations at these conferences.”
Depomed said in an email that it made contributions to nine of 14 foundations identified in the Senate committee report, totaling $1.07 million over six years.
“These contributions covered corporate advertising, conference booth fees, sponsoring training certifications and membership fees,” said Christopher Keenan, vice president for investor relations and corporate communications. He added that Depomed believes it acted responsibly.
Insys also confirmed that it made such payments but characterized them in a statement as “patient focused.”
“With regard to the US Pain Foundation specifically, our donation was directed to a disease-state fund for cancer patients with breakthrough pain, which many medical experts and health care providers believe is significantly undertreated in the US.” The statement specified that such “charitable contributions” are allowed because they benefit patients.
The company also noted a 77% decrease in contributions to these groups during the second half of 2017 as part of a shift to focus more on research and development.
The manufacturers who offered responses to the report said they had not seen it in its entirety.
Payments to physicians
On top of payments directly to the advocacy groups, the investigation found that $1.6 million was paid to physicians affiliated with these groups since 2013.
In a statement, McCaskill said, “The pharmaceutical industry spent a generation downplaying the risks of opioid addiction and trying to expand their customer base for these incredibly dangerous medications and this report makes clear they made investments in third-party organizations that could further those goals.”
For example, Monday’s report noted that the past president of the American Academy of Pain Medicine, Dr. Daniel Carr, said, “The CDC guidelines makes disproportionately strong recommendations based upon a narrowly selected portion of the available clinical science.” Other groups were cited for trying to undermine the CDC’s process by calling the guidelines “biased” and a result of “conflicts of interest.”
Josephson said Purdue agrees with the CDC guidelines for prescribing opioids and has been recommending that they be followed since they were issued.
The report also found that advocacy groups have been involved in lobbying efforts to defeat legislative measures to limit prescribing. The investigation offered a 2014 example in which the Academy of Integrative Pain Management teamed up with the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network to protect a 2001 law in Tennessee that made it difficult to discipline doctors who may have been overprescribing opioids.
Academy of Integrative Pain Management Executive Director Bob Twillman said “there is no proof that the [Tennessee] law in question ever prevented anyone from being either prosecuted or having disciplinary action taken by a licensing board.” He added that the law was “poorly written” and said “it was much more of an imagined impediment than a real impediment. The problem was that those wanting to repeal the law misrepresented what it actually said when debating the bills in the legislature.”
Twillman criticized Monday’s report — which he said he had seen only parts of — as being limited. “It appears that they’ve simply looked at how much money we got from a set of pharma companies, constructed a narrative about what that means and published it.” Twillman said that’s only half the story, adding that his group and others like it are part of the solution to the opioid crisis.
“The fact that these groups registered their opposition while receiving funding from the opioids industry raises the appearance — at the very least — of a direct link between corporate donations and the advancement of opioids-friendly messaging,” the new report states.
Dusek said Mylan’s priority is patient safety and noted that opioid-containing medications are a small fraction of the medications it manufactures, amounting to approximately 1% of opioids sold in the United States in 2016. She noted that the company has not seen the report in full, but criticized what she had seen so far as political.
“Lumping Mylan in with this group of companies is not only highly irresponsible, but also highlights more of a political agenda rather than finding real solution to the opioids crisis,” said Dusek. “Mylan made very limited payments to only one of the 14 organizations outlined in the report for a total of $20,250 over three years, translating to 0.2% of the $10 million in the executive summary. [McCaskill] chose to ignore these facts that differentiate Mylan from the other companies,” said Dusek.
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Janssen, a Johnson & Johnson company, said, “While we cooperated with the senator and provided her staff with the requested information, we have not yet received a copy of the final report and can’t comment on it’s content.”
According to the investigation committee, the donors to these advocacy groups did not have to be disclosed by law because of the groups’ nonprofit status.
“The financial relationships between these groups and opioid manufacturers should be clear to the general public,” McCaskill said. “We passed a law ensuring the public had information on payments to doctors by pharmaceutical companies, and I can’t imagine why the same shouldn’t be done in this space.”
It takes an astounding amount of effort for advertisers to capture audience attention during the Super Bowl nowadays, but Tide kept viewers on their toes with a series of fourth-wall-breaking ads full of callbacks.
The first commercial arrived early in the game as Stranger Things star and retweet connoisseur David Harbour parodied a number of Super Bowl commercial tropes. He encompassed everything from a high-end car commercial, soda and beer ads, and something more sensual before twisting it around; no matter the set-up, it was all a Tide ad in disguise, centering on everyone’s clean clothing.
If Tide and Harbour had left it at a single ad, they would’ve had one of the most amusing of the night. But then Harbour showed up again and again in follow-up ads that would air during every quarter. He was on a horse with Old Spice spokesperson Isaiah Mustafa. He used his expert dance moves to take over for Mr. Clean. He even got in on a medicine commercial. But in the end, they were all Tide ads, and once viewers realized the set-up, they started to expect Harbour to show up at any minute.
Beer Pong Champ
It wasn’t too far off to suggest that the Super Bowl itself was just one giant Tide ad. To be fair, the new championship T-shirts worn by the Philadelphia Eagles after the game were very clean so you never know.
Plot twist: the Eagles win the Super Bowl, Goodell comes down to hand off the trophy. Nick Foles takes the stage and removes his helmet. But it’s not Nick Foles, its Chief Hopper. The entire game was a Tide ad.
(CNN)A group of Maine dairy delivery drivers will receive $5 million in a proposed settlement for unpaid overtime, according to court records filed on Thursday.
An Oxford comma is the comma used after the second-to-last item in a list of three or more things, “item A, item B, and item C.” It’s not often used in journalism.
The drivers’ employer had claimed they were exempt from overtime pay, according to Maine’s labor laws.
Part of the law exempts certain tasks from receiving overtime compensation. This is what the law’s guidelines originally stated about exempted tasks:
The canning, processing, preserving, freezing, drying, marketing, storing, packing for shipment or distribution of:
(1) Agricultural produce;
(2) Meat and fish products; and
(3) Perishable foods.
Without the Oxford comma, the line “packing for shipment or distribution,” could be referring to packing and shipping as a single act, or as two separate tasks.
The drivers argued that it reads as a single act, and since they didn’t actually do any packing, they shouldn’t have been exempt from overtime pay.
“Specifically, if that [list of exemptions] used a serial comma to mark off the last of the activities that it lists, then the exemption would clearly encompass an activity that the drivers perform,” the circuit judge wrote.
According to court documents, the dairy, while denying any wrongdoing, believed further litigation would be protracted and expensive. The proposed settlement will be considered by a federal judge.
Its hard being friends with the notoriously demon-plagued comedian Artie Langewhich, full disclosure, I am. This is in no way objective. I truly want the guy to live.
I first interviewed Lange in 2006 as part of the New York Posts coverage of the annual New York Comedy Festival. He had just sold out Carnegie Hall in a few hours and was on top of the world. Over the next few years, we met at comedy clubs from time to time. I mentioned how healthy he looked in a May 2009 Page Six item about his visiting Colin Quinns one-man show (which he mentioned in his book Crash and Burn). When I interviewed him again on Oct. 30, 2009, it was a longer talk this time, with a few insights that surprised me. He talked about the game comics play of initially sabotaging a set with the audience, then seeing if you can dig yourself out of that hole. I asked if he had ever thought that he might be playing the same game with his own life. You should be a shrink, he said.
Sixty-nine days later, I heard the news, like anyone else who follows Lange: that he was near death after stabbing himself in the stomach nine times with a 13-inch kitchen knife.
Then on Sept. 27, 2010, I got a call from comedian Dan Naturman, who told me all about Arties triumphant return at the Comedy Cellar, which led to an incredibly feel-good lead item in Page Six called: Artie Lange Thrills Audiences Again.
I interviewed him several more times over the years, and when my husband Pat Dixon, who is also a comedian, started his own show in 2015 at Compound Media, run by controversial radio legend Anthony Cumia, I told Artie that he ought to consider joining the network. To my surpriseand unrelated to me telling him that, as the pairing of two Sirius refugees is a no-brainer for anyone who follows shock-jock radioin August 2017, he started a new show with Cumia called The AA Show. Now, not only did Lange have a regular broadcasting outlet, but the HBO series Judd Apatow and Pete Holmes enlisted him in called Crashing, where he played himself, was a bona fide hit. His third book, Wanna Bet?, was inked, his standup was doing well, and so if you were doing any kind of predictive sequence, what happened next was no surprise.
Oct. 16, 2017: Artie Lange rushed to hospital, cancels weekend show. Dec. 13, 2017: Artie Lange Arrested After Missing Court Date for Drug Charges. Dec. 15, 2017: Artie Lange Headed to Rehab on Private Jet After Drug Charge.
Less than a month later, on Jan. 12, Lange returned home to New York and tweeted out to his 364,000 followers: Im back guys. Clean & Sober 32 days.
On Jan. 18, after celebrating Dave Attells birthday (Artie just turned 50 himself), Lange met me in between sets at New York Citys Olive Tree Cafe. To avoid the requests for photos from fans and occasional paparazzi, we sat in his SUV and drove around the city for an hour and a half before returning to the comedy club. With one hand on the steering wheel and one on an unlit Marlboro Red, Lange talked about everything from Harvey Weinstein to Donald Trump to Louis C.K. to Aziz Ansari to the fundamental question at hand:
Artie Lange doesnt want to die… right?
The following interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.
Mandy: So I guess Im wondering at what point all of this is enough to get you to stop. Like, for instance, I have a friend who if he did cocaine one more time, the doctors told him his nose would collapse
Artie: Well half of my nose is gone. My nose has no septum. I mean Ive been snorting coke and heroin
Mandy: When was the last time you did coke or heroin?
Artie: Well I just pissed clean at Hazelden so thats 38 days. But heres the thing: 31 of them were in lockdown. So nows the real work. And Im not going to lie to you, its a struggle lying there every night.
Mandy: Whats the longest youve ever been clean?
Artie: Since I was 15, 11 months. And two weeks in my twenties.
Mandy: Do you take, what is it, methadone?
Artie: No, no. I was on methadone years ago. There was a methadone clinic on Eighth and 35th, and I would go there before Howard. They would give it out to me, like special, at 5:30 a.m. I had to stop doing heroin because I was losing my job. They gave me the methadone. Its fucking heroin, basically. I left during interviews to throw up. And I said, Well this is worse than fucking heroin, so why dont I stay on that. I take Suboxone now. Suboxone works well for me, and its accepted by society. It looks like a pill you take for blood pressure every morning, so thats how Ive got to look at it. It lets you not go cold turkey.
Aziz Im sorry is a better name. I dont have any respect for Aziz Ansari. Im glad nobody got raped.
Mandy: You detoxed cold turkey in jail this last time?
Artie: Ive been in jail like eight times, and this past time, I detoxed. I kicked heroin, like lying on the floor. When I got arraigned, you always want to be very respectful in front of the judge. She was like, What are you doing? And Im thinking to myself, Well, your honor, Im dead. And you know, Im trying to stand up. Withdrawal, the physical stuff, people would see the first or the second day of withdrawals, girlfriends would say, Well, that was really bad. And Im like, You saw the opening act. That was The Clash. That was David Johansen. The Who is about to take the stage. The third or fourth day of heroin withdrawal, if youre a big user like I became, if youre not physically stopped from getting dope, youll get it. With heroin, I became an addict on the road. I always had money. Ive never had to steal. I dont judge those people. Like people say to me, Have you ever blown a guy for heroin? I say, No. But then again, no ones ever asked.
Mandy: If you do fall off the wagon again, are you scared of fentanyl at all?
Artie: No. A real heroin addict is not scared of fentanyl. Id do it in a heartbeat. I want strong shit.
Mandy: Have you seen the tiny amount it takes to kill you?
Artie: I dont know what it is, but draw it back one inch. I would accept fentanyl in a heartbeat. I had a fentanyl patch on in a mental home. It was unbelievable. Ive never ODed. Ive had dealers say, Jesus Christ. What the fuck. But the nose is bad now. I could get a brain infection. If I did it, anything would go right to the brain. But again, I heard that six months ago, and I went and used an hour after.
Mandy: So I mean… you must want to die.
Artie: No, I dont want to die. I want to be high.
Mandy: But that will eventually kill you.
Artie: Im 50. If you would have told me in 1995, if you tried to bring up 2018, it would be like The Jetsons. Id be like, What are you talking about?
Mandy: So youre having fun on borrowed time.
Artie: Im playing with the houses money. As far as Im concerned, Im an overachiever. A lot of money changed hands on the internet when I turned 50. I was so happy. Fuck em all.
Mandy: But I mean… your mom and your sister. Theyre the main people who keep you from wanting to to be reckless with the houses money, right?
Artie: Yes thats the… thats the worst.
Mandy: I called your mom when you were practically in a coma these last few weeks, and her voice was just so heartbroken. I dont think she thought you were going to make it.
Artie: Yeah, you know, my father left us with nothing. I love my dad. He was my best friend. But my father was a criminal. My dad was an impulsive guy, and thats what killed him. Just like my father, with me, there are real high highs and real low lows. Like my mother saw me at Carnegie Hall, when my book went to No. 1 on The New York Times bestseller list, and I think [Barack] Obamas was like No. 7. She has that framed. But then shes also seen me withdrawing in jail.
Mandy: Your mom discovered you when you tried to kill yourself in 2010, right?
Artie: That was not a suicide attempt. I was in such bad withdrawals. Believe me, I leave a note. The one other time, I left a note. But shrinks go, Youve never tried to kill yourself. Because there was always a mountain of drugs involved. I was in such bad withdrawals, I wanted to feel something different. I was by myself. I wanted to lose enough blood to pass out. When I woke up, I dont know, I figured Id put on a red shirt and go out. I didnt know my mother was coming over. They had an intervention planned that I didnt even know about. I go, Ma, you never planned a surprise party.
Mandy: Does your mom talk to you every day?
Artie: Yeah, my mother knows me better than anybody, but I dont tell her when I slip. You know, when Dr. Drew offered me 250 grand to do Celebrity Rehab, I thought to myself, Do I just want to kill my mother now? Like its going to be me and Dennis Rodman throwing up in the same bucket. I love Dr. Drew, but I knew that show was going to go off the air because the recovery rate is like zero. If Pablo Escobar were alive today, hed be running a rehab. Its such a corrupt industry.
Mandy: You seem to still get offered drugs a lot. I think about that scene in Crashing where its the super hot woman from Showgirls who has coke and wants to do it with you.
Artie: Gina Gershon? Yeah, you know, that episode is based on one of my stories. And if the woman who inspired the episode figures it out, shed be very happy with the casting.
Mandy: Do you think it was a good idea to leave rehab early?
Artie: I have to do this intense outpatient thing which is five days a week. I go in there in the morning, and I get piss tests there. Screen Actors Guild doesnt let you do that to people. Like its almost an NFL union. You cant pee-test people. Not that Im complaining about it, but I dont get fired from shows because ultimately its a forgiving business for stuff like that. People always say its a forgiving business. And, its true. Robert Downey Jr. came back, and hes like the best actor ever. But for every one of him, theres like two thousand Jeff Conaways from Taxi living at a right angle and nobody cares and they die alone.
Mandy: Youre just working so much right now.
Artie: The one genre where I have some juice is the radio business, and you know Anthony Cumia, I love Anthony so much now. I never really met him before. Were both sort of outlaws. Without this podcasting technology you know we both would be out of a job now, probably. Its such a weird existence I have right now. Over on one side, Im doing this crazy podcast with Anthony on Compound Media that I love, and then Im on Crashing which is an HBO-produced show I love, but which could not be more the other way. Judd Apatow is another famous guy who saved my life. Like, what a great person. Ive got books and stand-up, and Im still making a lot of money doing it. If thats not going to go away, theres not much of an incentive to stay in rehab.
Mandy: And Im guessing, from what you said, you dont want to leave your mom with nothing. So what about a gig like the one with Anthony Cumia. Is that enabling or is that helping you stay clean?
Artie: Let me tell you something: I love doing it. Its almost like therapy. A lot of people dont understand a comics mind. People are like, Youre going to jump right into stand-up? Yeah, thats what I have to do. I cant stop doing it. And Anthonys show is like from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m. Its the most fun Ive ever had in my life. Even more fun than Howard. Because I was never uncensored on Howard. Its his show. Its Howard. So what was happening near the end when his life changed, he would meet somebody in the Hamptons, and we wouldnt know about it. Like me and Fred [Norris, the longest tenured Howard Stern staff member] wouldnt know about it. And then hed be friends with them, like somebody we bashed for 10 years. So Id say something about Richard Gere, and hed go, You got a problem with him? Id go, Havent we always had a problem with him? No, I had dinner with him. Well, can I get the memo? I dont give a shit. Ill put him on the fucking list. But I wouldnt not be able to make fun of Orlando Bloom. The show, I couldnt be on now. And he knew that.
Mandy: Anthony probably does a better Howard impression than Howard at this point.
Artie: Well the thing about Anthony is that hes the same guy off-air. But its not true for Howard. Howards a very fascinating guy. He must have an IQ north of 180. But the example I always use is that Hunter S. Thompson was a guy who destroyed like the wealthy and corporate America, and he walked the walk until the end of his life. He was a crazy maniac in Colorado and shot himself in the head. And Howard was like that for a while. He was making fun of all these people, and when he got a chancelike no one else has become an A-list person through the radiobut when he got a chance to be with those people, fans thought hes going to be like Hunter S. Thompson. Like you see them through the window eating, and hes going to bust through the window or moon them or something. And when he got the chance, like Jennifer Anistons wedding, he starts making out with Orlando Bloom.
Artie: Right. And to me as a fan, its like, what the fuck have we been laughing at all this time? Me and my first girlfriend at the time Dana [Sironi], she was close with Beth [Ostrosky Stern]. And Beth is a sweetheart. I dont want to make it sound like Im bitter. I still love Howard.
Mandy: Who are the people from the Stern show you keep in touch with?
Artie: Well, theyre not allowed to call me. I swear to God, Ive had people tell me from the show they were worried they were talking to me. Look, Im a person whos impulsive, and I get very angry and I say things I shouldnt say. Its hurt me my whole life, and Im a junkie.
Mandy: You tweeted a few days ago, Look out Marci. Im talking to Howard without your permission, referring to his high-profile handler Marci Turk. Did you actually talk to Howard Stern?
Artie: No, I dont talk to Howard. We hate each others guts. He cant stand me for some reason, and Ive learned to hate him.
Mandy: Whats your reaction to Louis C.K.? And now everyones talking about the story that was written about Aziz Ansari.
Artie: Aziz Im sorry is a better name. I dont have any respect for Aziz Ansari. Im glad nobody got raped. But you know, I agree with Samantha Bee when she says it doesnt have to be rape to ruin somebodys life. Thats true. And what Louis did is despicable. That was a rumor for a long time. But if youre a couple of women at the Aspen Comedy Festival, youve got a lot going on, probably. And theres this comedian, who back then he wasnt famous, but hes always been respected, and they certainly knew him. And hes promising them shit supposedly, and its just because he wants to jerk off in front of them. Its just the creepiest thing ever. Louis was always overrated to me. He has like five jokes hes written that I like. But you know Ill go along with it, if it gets me spots. I just think hes overrated. To me, it was like the emperors new clothes came off. In the hotel room.
Mandy: Have you had any women approach you with any kind of Me Too moment, something they wanted to confront you about?
Artie: A girl? No. I mean, some people think Im a misogynist because of stuff on the Stern show. You know Ive never told anybody this, but this is how my family feels about sex predators: After I told my father about a high-school teacher hurting a girl I knew, the way my dad dealt with it was by waiting outside the teachers house, putting a bag over the guys head, and leaving him in a car for two days. My dad came back, disguised his voice, and he said, Stop fucking touching little girls. Im not condoning how he handled it, but thats just the truth. My father thought that was justified. You know, there are people who think Goodfellas is horrible. We think its a comedy. My momshe is the strongest woman in my lifeand she and my sister are my heroes. Any woman whos ever dated me will tell you, Im like, Are you sure? Can we get this in writing and an email from you? I think in Hollywood, its a case of these nerdy guys who dont know what to do with a woman, and they get a chance to do it, and they do something inappropriate. Like Ive never been a Casanova but Ive always been able to get a date. I think the more time you stay asexual in your adult life, you get creepier.
Mandy: Ive had several comics over the years tell me about their personal dislike for Aziz based on his standoffish behavior. Do you think theres any schadenfreude right now as he is coming under fire?
Artie: Im probably one of those guys. I thought he could follow me on Bitter. I dont like bashing of comedians in general. I hated the Dane Cook-bashing thing. And Dane goes on to make all that money, and that bitterness comes out. Then his brother steals millions of dollars from him. I wish Dane well. And you know, I think Aziz gets a lot of that bitterness, too. You know, his timing is perfect for comedy. But what he does at the Comedy Cellar is not going to endear him to anybody. What he does there, he sits in the corner like a young Dylan writing jokes, and he can do that at home. We get it. Youre a hard worker. But I guess were going to have to get over that, because a new generation of people is coming.
I think he was trying to figure out a way to get rid of me. I did the job for him, but I dont think he was rooting for it.
Artie Lange on Howard Stern
Mandy: Do you think that Crashing captures the changing culture in comedy at all?
Artie: Judd is so great at what he does, and so is Pete [Holmes]. The way Judd lets you improvise, and the money… see Ive never been involved in something that you might call a hit. Except the Stern show, but that was very different. Judd is so successful. The money HBO is spending. They shot it like a playyou dont have to do over-the-shoulder stuff. And the way that I talk and work, it was way better for me. Judd knew that. Like the scene in the pizzeria, Judd read my book, which was flattering, and he said, Just tell me stories about your life, about what can happen off-stage, so like the ghost of Christmas future. Comedy future. I think its great, because Judd lets us talk.
Mandy: I was relistening today to your very first Howard Stern appearance. And Stern is joking, saying, You need coke. Youre a lot better on it. He also says, Go out and get into more trouble, and well have you back on.
Artie: I know. But you cant blame anyone else for any of this. Howards genius is seeing which way the wind is blowing in society and acting accordingly. I think he noticed after the Janet Jackson thing, we started getting fined for stupid shit. Were getting $500,000 fines for jokes Im making about farting. The guy is a genius at marketing and comedymore so in marketing. I think he saw over time the way the show was going, and that it would not be conducive to have me on it. But he also knew that I was popular. I think he was trying to figure out a way to get rid of me. I did the job for him, but I dont think he was rooting for it. I think he conquered that era of radio with me. I wouldnt fit in now at all. I cant stand Gwyneth Paltrow. The contrast between the old shows is crazy. Like if you listen to shows we did of us talking about Jennifer Aniston or Ellen DeGeneres dancing in the 2000s. He said Aniston was a cunt. Even I was like, Jesus, it must be personal. Now he goes to her wedding.
Mandy: So whats going on with your health? The diabetes has gotten really bad? Have you had to amputate anything?
Artie: God no. The rumors have gotten really bad, havent they? No, the diabetes is under control every time I go to the hospital. But the thing is, its a confusing disease. One day a Twinkie could save your life, and another day it could kill you. Im not a good preparer so thats why I was bad in school. I was like, Lets get the fuck out of here and get to life. Which comedy lets you do. But yeah, with diabetes, youre supposed to measure your blood sugar every time before you eat. Im like, What the fuck, are you kidding me? Im going to take my blood sugar in the parking lot of McDonalds? Its bad, but when I go to the hospital they get me under control. So now its under control. Its fine, actually. But you know, give me two months out of the hospital and my blood sugar is higher than my credit score. Thats the signifier of a loser. They also put me on the liver list. I needed a new liver. But I went to a medical clinic someone recommended, and they gave me this special shit they put in the saline, it cost like $80,000, and my liver enzymes were like 900, which is like Mickey Mantle at the end of his life. And it went to normal, completely normal. My kidneys, my liver are all fine. The doctor said, Youve got the bloodwork, despite the diabetes, of an Olympic athlete.
Mandy: Have you thought about going down to Hippocrates Health Institute, where a lot of entertainment industry people have gone?
Artie: I did that once. Yeah, my sister found out about it. You need a prescription for an apple. I ran away from that in 2008. Howard said, go away for as long as you need to. Eight days in with these two other guys who were Stern fans who would have done anything for me, we just escaped in the one guys car. I got a $3,500 room at the Setai in South Beach, and I got a hooker and a bunch of pancakes. And I called into the show and said I have whiskey and pancakes with this Ecuadorian hooker, and he put me on the air. So I left early from that, and I was out of control. And Howard didnt think I was going to die or anything. You know, Chris Rock came in once and said, Howard, I think youve got to fire Artie. I love him. But he needs consequences.
Mandy: I guess my take is, from observing you from afar, youve said, Im clean so many times, and that youre always somebody who is going to use.
Artie: People think that I want to be someone who uses. I dont. I mean, I remember in Little League when I didnt use anything, I was very happy. When I am emphatic about it, in my personal life, I dont lie to friends of mine. But I can think of a lot of reasons why you dont tell your boss youre doing heroin, and why I lied to Howard Stern. Theres also a misconception I hate that Howard didnt care about me. He tried to get me help. Several times he said to me, Take as long as you want, and when you come back you have a job.
Mandy: So do you think some of the drug abuse comes from massive, massive self-hatred? That was the case for me, I know, and many addicts.
Artie: Thats interesting. Listen, Bernie Brillstein was talking to Norm Macdonald and me once. Hes the legendary manager who managed [John] Belushi, and he managed Chris Farley. And he supposedly said to Belushi and Farleyits funny he had guilt that he said this to Belushi, and 20 years later he said it again to mehe said, Well, whatd you get into show business for? Not to fuck hookers and do drugs? I was brought up on Sam Kinison and Richard Pryor. With Richard Pryor, I wanted to do almost everything he did, short of burning himself. And thats a terrible thing to think, but I got the opportunity, and I made every mistake you could make. I was like, Why not? The first time we went to Las Vegas with Howard, I fucked 11 strippers in four days. We were like the Rolling Stones going in there. Two years on MadTV aint exactly the Rolling Stones. The stuff Ive done with Norm Im so proud of because it was Norm, but it was never like a big hit. Like Dirty Work has become a little bit of a cult thing, which Im proud of. But with the Stern show, this was like rock-star shit. We flew into Vegas on a private jet, and theres a line around the block, and its all for us. Howard is married. Fred is married. Everyones married, and then theres me. The strippers going down her list, and she says, I guess Ill fuck him.
Mandy: Do you still talk to Norm Macdonald?
Artie: We communicate with text, like everybody else. He put a very nice thing in his book about me. He called me the last time, and he said, you gotta stop doing this. He was worried about me. I love Norm. Norm saved my whole career. Out of nowhere. I was about to start driving a cab again. I got the call for Dirty Work, and that led to everything else. Norm. Howard. Quincy Jones, who gave me MadTV. And Judd now. These are famous guys. [Bruce] Springsteen called me. And Apatow said to me, he said, You must be a really bad addict going back to this shit after all these people, your heroes, saved you. Hes right. I mean, Quincy Jones saved my fucking life. He also got me these insane privileges in L.A. County. Like my own shower. And I asked Quincy, How do you have so much sway in prison? He said, I made Thriller.
Mandy: So why do you go back to the drugs after you get clean each time? Is it the boredom?
Artie: Its the anger. Ill give you an example. Its a story I kind of keep on the down-low, but there was this girl that I dated in San Diego. She worked at an agency as an assistant. She was 23. I was 28, and I was on MadTV. And she was pregnantshe got pregnant, found out it was a boy. I was all excited, and she was scared to death because of how I had been living. Me at that age makes this look like Mr. Rogers. So the first place we made out was Zuma Beach, and she said, Lets go to that place. I want to tell you something. Shes crying, and she says, I had an abortion. I was mad, and I said, Why? And she said, You know, Artie, youre going to make your mark in this business, but I hope you do it before you die. And I cant deal with that.
Mandy: So anger is often the cause of relapses for you? Anger at the world?
Artie: It is a strange world. Its like rereading the Unabomber Manifesto its kind of like, I get it now. I dont agree with how he went about it, but he was clearly on the money about technology. Or look at the movie Network. That one scene, he lays everything out about what is to come.
Mandy: When do you find out if youre going to jail?
Artie: Feb. 23. You know, if they want to send me away for being a junkie, thats fine. The judge was very fair. Very smart. I dont know if she was a big fan of mine, but thats all right.
Mandy: When do you think you were happiest in your life?
Artie: You know, its funny. When I was broke, when I left the port as a longshoreman, and I decided to drive into New York City one night, I was 19 years old. When I started doing well, I was driving a cab, I was broke, trying to help my mother out. We were about to lose the house. And I told her I could go back to the port. She said I could keep doing it. But you know, I was happier during the struggle because of hope. I was 23, broke, driving a cab, parking a cab in front of The Comic Strip, which was the first place I passed. I would have [Joe] Matarese or [Dave] Attell watch the car. I was happier then, I swear to God.
Mandy: Hollywood can be fairly crushing. So many transactional relationships and people who dont care if you live or die and want to use you.
Artie: At the Stern show, I saw how toxic that entire environment was. You have some people who are without talent who just leached onto Howard. Talentless guys whose entire life is based on pleasing that one person. I saw people who werent comedians who thought they could sit in that chair and do what I did. When I went down with the heroin thing, they were clearly making statements about it. Like if I died, they would have been almost happy about it, I guarantee it. I saw the sharks swimming like Ive never seen before. I thought I knew a lot about people in a non-naive way coming into that job, but man, the way people wanted what I did for a living. What pissed me off is that they thought they could do it. And you know, theres a reason that chair stayed empty. Im done being humble with some things. That chair isnt empty completely because Howard felt like it; that chair is empty because he knows no one can do what I did. There are people who are funnier than me, but theres no one who would have been as honest, and no one who knows that show better. I left a lot of blood on that fucking floor, man. I told stories that cost me relationships with some people, and I didnt realize it. I almost got arrested. The DEA came to the fucking show because of something I said on the air, in their fucking windbreakers, to grill me about Heath Ledger because they thought we had the same heroin dealer. Im like, Why the fuck do you think that? I guess theres reasons they could. There was a security guy who worked the door, and he saw the whole thing, and he said, Artie, you are one entertaining fuckup.
Artie: I love Trump. Ive had like four times when I interacted with him. I roasted him. Trump said I was the best of the night, but then Howard is so smart, he told me to tell the joke that was making fun of him in business. I do, and then Trump goes, Artie was the worst of the roast. He bombed. I had a CNN guy call me about it, and I said, Im not doing it. Because Im fucking rooting for him. And I golfed with him and Eli Manning once at his club. I did nothing but laugh along with him. Then I saw him at Howards wedding. Howard had bought out Le Cirque. But it was still small. I had played Carnegie Hall at this point, but it was so nerve-wracking. Billy Joel and his wife were there, two feet from me. Howard. Trump and Melania. Barbara Walters, Joan Rivers, Chevy Chase. It was a tough room, you know. And I killed. The first joke was how much Beth looks like Christie Brinkley, so I made a Billy Joel joke. And thank God he laughed at it. But Howard was drunk, and doing that great Howard laugh. I loved making Howard laugh. But Trump came up to me afterward, because other people spoke and kind of bombed, and he shook my hand, and he said, That was a very hard thing to do, and you were amazing. He respected that even though I look like a slob he could tell I worked hard. Because, yeah, you think I walked into Stern because I won a lottery? So I always respected the guy.
Whether youre for him or not, what he represents is that this country can vote out politicians and elect a game show host because theyre pissed off about stuff. You know, there are two guys on that Billy Bush tape. One guy apologized. The other guy didnt. One guys working at a gift shop in Kennebunkport. The other guys president. The fucking country likes alpha males. The Midwest does, I know that. And the stuff with the Mexicans. He didnt say he hates all Mexicans. He told the truth about the drug problem. How do you think I get dope? Trump just doesnt give a shit. You know, Louis C.K. wrote an op-ed piece, while he was, jerking off next to women, calling Trump Hitler? And its like, Calm the fuck down. It washes down what Hitler did. A guy who let the Mob take away garbage because you have to? The naivete of these people. If you build a building in New York, you have to deal with the Mob. Trump knows that. Ted Cruz lost so many votes during the primaries when he attacked him on that.
Artie: Well, I think Ive done worse. Comparing him to Harvey Weinstein? Thats a fetish. Listen, if Trump has raped someone, of course I hate his guts.
Mandy: So for you, what has the reaction been to your latest near-death experience? From everything that Ive read on Twitter and Reddit and YouTube, I feel like half the fans are saying, I dont want to watch him kill himself anymore, and like, Ive stopped believing him.
Artie: The fact that I havent got it yet is hard to understand. I think theyre disappointed in me. It was an easier sell at 30 than it was at 50.
Mandy: Whats the best sobriety advice youve received, do you think?
Artie: To not make my Higher Power my career or another human being because it can disappoint you.
Mandy: Do you believe in God? Do you pray?
Artie: You know, Ill give you something Ive never told anybody. So my father was obsessed with Houdini the magician, and Houdini was obsessed with the occult. Houdini always tried to contact the other side, like dead relatives. So Houdini said, If I die, lets have a word. If the psychic tells you the word, you know, we talk. So my father said, when he was lying in bed, he had the plan to kill himself, but I didnt know that. He said, Lets do that. I go, OK. His father, who I never knew, died when he was 11. He got shot in front of him. His father worked at a factory. The Otis Elevator Company in Newark. It was a bookie, I guess. But he said, Lets make it Otis.
So Im in rehab this latest time, several weeks ago. And Im in the van, which the hilarious security guards call The Druggie Buggie. Or The Loser Cruiser, thats what they call it in jail. So Ive just come out of the shit, with the withdrawal part, and I looked better, I guess. It was a beautiful day. Where I went in Connecticut, it was like a Christmas card, it was unbelievably beautiful. And I said, I feel better this time. I felt really good. The sky was clear. I was with people I like, and they both said out of nowhere, I think youre going to make it this time. And I said, I guess I gotta think like that. And I stretched over, and there was a car that said Otis on it. The elevator at the rehab that never broke, they said, when I told them the story, the Otis Elevator Company was repairing the elevator. Listen, I dont believe in any of that shit, but that is the most spiritual thing thats ever happened to me. I tell my mother that, and clearly shes religious, and she goes, Dads talking to you. Im telling you, that was fucking freaky. So you know, just at that moment, when I had hope and I looked up and it was a clear sky and it says Otis, I was just like, Jesus Christ.
In college, your life pretty much looks the same as all your peers. You all go to classes, you all have similar living situations, and you’re basically at the same place in life. This drastically changes when you graduate and some people get high-paying corporate jobs, others go to grad school, some enter professions that aren’t about the paycheck at all. Your friend’s financial situations are suddenly extremely varied.
To put things in perspective, LinkedIn released the ten most common job titles people are taking as their entry-level, post-college job, along with the median salary. Knowing the average salary for a position you’re moving into will help you negotiate a fair salary and having a rough idea of what your friends make helps you have realistic ideas about what is financially healthy for . Here are the results:
Software Engineer – $95,000
Administrative Assistant – $38,600
Account Executive – $75,000
Recruiter – $57,000
Financial Analyst – $65,000
Marketing Coordinator – $45,000
Research Assistant – $34,500
Business Analyst – $72,000
Account Manager – $67,000
Project Engineer – $73,000
When I graduated and was looking at numbers like these, they seemed high compared to what companies were offering, but it’s important to provide your own context here. The number you should expect will be higher if you live in a high cost of living area, and lower if you live in a more affordable city (you can estimate cost of living here). Check with other resources like Glassdoor where you can look up what a specific company might pay for each position and have as much information as possible going into your interviews.